Resilienz-Podcast „Rethinking Resilience“ – Folge 66

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Herzlich willkommen zu Rethinking Resilience, dein Podcast für Resilienz in Theorie und Praxis, von und mit Sebastian Mauritz und Ruben Langwara. Herzlich willkommen zu einer weiteren Folge Rethinking Resilience mit Ruben Langwara und mit mir und wir haben heute eine Premiere und zwar haben wir Connirae Andreas. Dr. Connirae Andreas kommt aus den USA. Wir werden mit ihr gleich auf Englisch sprechen und der Podcast wird mit Untertiteln entsprechend, ja, untertitelt werden, sodass alle entsprechend folgen können, wenn man sich den auf YouTube oder auf Spotify mit dem Video entsprechend anschaut. Wir sprechen heute mit der Begründerin mehrerer Methoden. Diese Methoden, die sie entwickelt hat, werden im Coaching, aber auch im Therapiebereich angewendet, sind sehr kraftvoll, sind aus meiner Erfahrung auch sehr heilsam, sehr integrierend und deswegen haben wir sie eingeladen.

Sie ist demnächst auch in Deutschland. Sie führt diesen Podcast sogar auch aus Deutschland jetzt gerade schon und von daher dachten wir, es ist eine gute Gelegenheit. Deswegen, hallo liebe Connirae, hallo lieber Ruben and we will switch to English now.

So great to have you here. What a pleasure.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
It is a great thing to be here with you, Sebastian. I always enjoy our conversations, so I look forward to discovering what comes out today.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
And of course, hello to you, Ruben, too. You have already got to know Connirae as well. So we will start with you, Ruben. What are your experiences with the work of Connirae or with whatever you have experienced so far? I’m just curious.

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Awe would be the word. A-W-E. When I saw you in Karlsruhe, the town where I was born, the city where I was born actually, in 2023, I think, I visited every single one of the levels of wholeness work.

And it was just amazing seeing you up front and especially the exercises. But your demos were amazing of the calmness you represent, the presence you represent. And I was one of those participants, Connirae, who wanted to really dig into the science and really wanted to know, like, how does it work? What’s the science behind it? And I really loved your answer because it was right before you wanted to send us into groups. And then you just said something like, oh, isn’t that interesting? Maybe you just being curious during the exercise and trying to find it out. And there was no question after the exercise. And I was totally in awe.

And I was just happy for the experience. So that’s the experience I had with you. And I’m so thankful for that. And it was just a great experience. And I can really, really recommend visiting the training with you in Germany or wherever.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Oh, well, thank you. That’s so touching to hear, Ruben. I do remember you from that training. And yeah, and I just really appreciate hearing your experience and your perspective. This is, you know, it brings to mind, I remember the very first time I taught this work, the wholeness work in a group. And I went in thinking, this has been really meaningful to me.

It’s really helped me with things nothing else could reach. But I have no idea if anybody else is going to relate to it. So I kind of walked in the room sharing it and guiding through these exercises. And then so so and I always learn from the reflections that come back from other people like what you just shared, Ruben. Thank you. Yeah.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
No, thank you. And I remember Ruben asking me before and we will talk about the wholeness work in a bit. And I was talking with Ruben before, since I’ve got to know you in 2015 in Göttingen, where we invited you from our NLP association.

And I just remember having all these questions as well. And you giving the best answer for myself, which is lead by experience. So Ruben and I were discussing that before the training and after the training. So how exactly does it work? And we were sharing all of our concepts and hypotheses. And I even got into an fMRI scan just to look which parts of the brain light up when you go into this wholeness state or the state of integration. So and it was the insular for connection and for transcendence feeling. I was like, that is so interesting. And what amazes me is how deeply relaxing and integrating it is.

So that’s that other things we want to talk about, how you can achieve personal change and so on and so forth. And if you could, in the end, just give us like a like a quick glimpse. So us and everybody who’s listening, how good it feels to just, you know, follow the process.

That would be great.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Absolutely. Absolutely. You’d like me to do that towards the end, right?

We do that, a little guided experience. Yeah. Or right now I could do it.

Whatever you like.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
No, we will just, you know, once the listeners are fully integrated, now we’ll just, you know, we’ll enjoy and just switch off, which I wouldn’t mind. We’ll do it to the end. So my first question would be like if people, a lot of people probably don’t know you, but if you could share something about your background, your life’s journey, your work and like it’s always this saying, you teach best what you need or what you needed most.

For you, it’s rather you developed greatly what you needed so greatly, something like that. If you could just introduce yourself and just.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. My background, I guess my yearning for personal transformation started as a child, you know, when I was growing up and I saw people around me, not the happiest, you know, they’d get into conflicts and I was kind of going, you know, I felt the pain for them.

I think I just was one of those kind of people. And I always I had this yearning for a better way. Can we transform our communication so that it works better for everybody so that each of us is happier?

And so then I went into psychology in graduate school, but I quickly got quickly got introduced to the field of NLP along with my husband, Steve Andreas. And together we were just fascinated. You know, immediately we were fascinated. It’s like this is a field working on it in a different way than anything that I’d been learning in my graduate program in clinical psychology, you know, anything in that area. NLP, as most many of your listeners I’m sure know, it’s just I was attracted to its precision and the way it provided not just theories but specific way you can get dependable results and then you could track results by watching someone’s nonverbal shifts. And I thought, wow, this is wonderful.

I immediately went back and started trying it out with my, you know, with the clients that I was seeing in the psychology clinic in my graduate school program. And my husband and I started teaching right away. We produced, and we started asking ourselves, what are the gaps? What needs to be added to the field that’s not there? How can we contribute basically, you know, because the field was magical already. So how can we contribute to this?

And we saw a need for a book that was accessible to anyone so that would maybe make the magic of the training room come into the living room. And so we produced, from transcripts, we created the book Frogs into Princes, Transformations and Reframing and Using Your Brain for the Change, all based on transcripts of the developers. And these really did help to pop NLP into more, getting closer to mainstream field.

It brought it into the awareness of hundreds of thousands of people. So that was my background. Then what started happening is for me, I started feeling this dissatisfaction because I could see the results of NLP. I saw it was good, no question. And yet I would try it with myself and feel like it just flopped. I couldn’t get it to work with myself.

And I didn’t like that. I wanted to have something that would work for me too, not just my clients. And here a key piece, as you know, Sebastian and Ruben, I’m sure you both heard me tell this story, an experience that I had with Milton Erickson was pivotal, was key. So I had the good fortune to be a part of one of, well actually I was part of two of Erickson’s week-long teaching seminars. These were small group sort of conversations he would have with groups of therapists or therapists-to-be like I was. And in his small, sort of like a living room space in his home office in Phoenix, Arizona.

And the one I went to the last year before he died, I experienced like the last day of a five-day teaching seminar. Suddenly I’m sitting there in this little group across the circle from Milton Erickson and suddenly it’s like something came over me. And it was almost like being possessed, except it was being possessed with myself.

I felt in a way I’d never felt before, a kind of well-being and ease that was so complete that I was at peace with everything. Everything was fine in a deep way, not in the sense that I would condone bad things happening or anything like that, but in this deep way I had this sense that, you know, whatever happens, I’m okay and actually everyone else is okay too. There’s some kind of essence that is not possible to damage or destroy and I was just experiencing that essence.

And so that lasted for maybe a couple weeks, maybe a couple months really. It lasted a couple months after the training. At the time I thought, this feels so real. How could I ever feel any other way from here forward? But it started fading away. It started unraveling, coming apart and pretty soon I was back to my old, what I call my own, my old neurotic ways of thinking, you know.

And by that I mean, you know, I would be trying to please people. I’d be worrying about what other people thought. I would be stressing out over different things, all of that kind of stuff I was doing again. And I thought, oh darn, here I am back to this, you know, the stress. And so I signed up for another week with Erickson, but he died before I got there. So I realized I was really on my own for finding a path back to that.

But now I knew it was possible. I knew it was possible. Something beyond what I could have dreamed for before.

It was just, it just felt more complete, more total than any kind of good therapy outcome I had been exposed to in my training or heard about. It was just somehow beyond all that. And so to make a long story short, I don’t want to go on and on too long about this, to make a long story short, that striving is what led to me developing the core transformation method first. And then later on, it was a key part of me developing the wholeness work. So, and both of these are what I consider deep, deep change methods. It’s not just about change. It’s not just about transformation. It’s about deep transformation. So, yeah, go ahead.

I’ll let you get in some words.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
I find that very interesting because I’ve read an article of you about the stages of transformation. And me working with clients and me knowing your method, reading that was quite differentiating, the step somebody starts in his journey towards herself or himself, towards change and even towards deeper levels of change. And so it’s not that, and if I do coaching, I first do some information.

Okay, emotions can be viewed as this. In my world and in Ruben’s world as well, there are no negative emotions. They are unpleasant and they want to tell you something.

So we have like these really basic things. I go over with new clients and I never do wholeness in the first session or so. And the more I progress with people and the more I get into the conversation of change, I sometimes have then an impulse to say like, okay, I’d like to share a method with you and just see what you can do with that.

And then I introduce, for example, wholeness as a self-meditation method. And it’s just like, if you want to try it, let’s do it together first and then you try it out and I’ll support you and so on. So talking about these stages of transformation with all your overview knowledge, could you just, you know, what I so partially just mentioned, could you just, if somebody listens, says like, well, I know I need to change. How do I get to the deeper levels of change? What levels of transformation are there? So could you give like this article in kind of way, although it’s kind of naturally written already.

So just for the people who are listening, get an idea of then what wholeness work does, because I think wholeness work really works on the really deep levels of change where it’s not this breakthrough methods, but rather this really soft and natural and dissolving. It gets lighter towards the end. Instead, we suppose it gets harder, something like that.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yes, yes. Thank you for sharing all that, Sebastian. I think that offers a useful framework for a really good way to utilize wholeness work. Anytime we’re working with a client, we need to start with where they are, whatever that is, and their goals, and then, and match, meet that. And then most people, I think we could say, most people want more than what they know to ask for. And that’s what we can start introducing them to with wholeness work. People come in, they go, I want this. I’m not happy about this. That’s what they know to ask for.

And then, just like what happened for me in Erickson’s office, something happened that I wouldn’t have known to ask for. It went farther. So we can start bringing that in, too.

So in a nutshell, these stages of transformation. In the article, I think I had seven dimensions in that article. Along seven dimensions, there is a progression that happens with transformation. Maybe I’ll just follow one or two of these to give an idea of how this works. What you alluded to is this breakthrough. That’s sort of the force versus no force dimension, one of those. And it’s one of the most important ones, I think, because oftentimes people are hoping for some kind of breakthrough. And oftentimes a breakthrough happens with some degree of force. And it can be good.

It can be really positive, even. But the problem with breakthroughs is often that there’s a back sliding. And the reason is because basically any outcome claimed through force of any sort is going to have to be reclaimed. To make it lasting, it’s going to have to be reclaimed in a gentler, kinder, no force way. But if we get back to this dimension of stages of development, force to no force, at the beginning, people tend to want something that, you know, do it to me, make it happen kind of thing. And if it’s forceful, it’s fine.

I don’t know. I’m good with that. Just make me better. And then we get to perhaps a stage where we’re ready for methods that are subtle force. We might be participating in them more. We don’t expect to be done to so much from the outside. We’re more of an engaged, active participant. And yet there might still be a kind of subtle force to it. And I consider most of the NLP, classic NLP methods are in this category.

And by subtle force, it’s not necessarily a problem. Sometimes it’s the best way to just do something, to help, to kind of make something happen. And that, like Mark, my son Mark is also an NLP trainer. He tells me, you know, when I have these teenage clients come to, or young, you know, often I start with something simple like anchoring. We just make something happen and they’re impressed. And now they’re motivated to do more, to go farther.

And so it’s a method that involves a certain kind of overriding of the system. It makes something happen. And yet it can help engage someone and help.

It just opens the door then to possibly going the next level. It’s like, okay, now I can do things this way with a little bit of force and effort. Now I might get curious about going even deeper, especially if we go far enough at one stage of development, we come to its end, the end where it’s not going to work for us anymore.

And then if we come to its end, if we know how to shift over to what might be the next stage, then we can keep growing and developing. And I see this happening within wholeness work over and over and over. Wholeness work is one of the, it’s the main methodology that I am aware of.

As far as I know, there’s not an end to it, but it can feel like there’s an end. We get to a place where, and that always is a clue to something our unconscious is attempting to reveal to us. And that if we can get the clue, if we can read it, and often this is where a good trained coach comes in really handy, because a coach can help mirror it back to us and help us see it.

And then wholeness work does have a way to keep helping us go deeper on the journey. But the stage after the subtle force stage is the, not only no force, but the deepest change where it comes through more finding the subtle force we’ve already applied to our own being. You know, ways that we contort ourselves to try to be happy, to try to be resourceful, to try to be whatever, you know, to try to be successful.

The ways we contort ourselves to try to make something happen. Once we start finding those and allowing those to release, if we find them at a deep unconscious level and allow those to release, then we discover that life becomes easier. And it comes through a letting go of the unconscious force we were applying, but didn’t even know we were applying.

So one thing that comes to mind is an NLP trainer who went through the, she’s really capable, good NLP trainer, came through the wholeness work level one training. And at the end of it, she said, you know, a couple of weeks later, she’s telling me, wow, you know, life is just so much easier now. I, you know, I realize only looking back on it, how much effort I was putting in to maintaining a resourceful state for myself.

And now it’s just like, I am the resourceful state. No, I don’t have to maintain anything. I don’t, there’s nothing I have to hold on to, nothing I have to maintain. It’s just this ease going through. So there’s one of the dimensions. And another dimension that I’d like to add in this related, I sort of hinted at it already, it’s external to internal.

And that’s the, in early stages, we want the change. We want somebody else to wave the magic wand. And I wanted that from Milton Erickson, you know, please let me go see you, wave your magic wand, make me be different. And in retrospect, I believe it’s because I got the change through a magic wand that it didn’t last, you know, and that I ended up needing to find a way of reclaiming that, reclaiming all that. So, and it’s, that wasn’t a problem really. I’m so grateful to Erickson for what he was able to bring into my experience as a possibility.

And then I had to find my way back. So in this dimension, first we look for an outside cure on a physical level. Maybe we want the medicine that’s going to heal us on the, you know, on the psychological level, the powerful coach or whatever, who’s going to just like hit us on the head and suddenly now we’re going to be, or zap us into a deep trance and then going to just make the change happen. And not, I mean, you can use hypnotic work in this later stage way too, just to be clear. But that’s what we want. And then, so then the next phase, we start recognize, we might look for a placebo in this first effect.

A placebo would work really well because it’s a pill I can take. It’s something outside. Something I can see is not me that’s making me be different.

But what happens with a placebo? It’s really that, it’s really my own shifting that’s happened when I take a placebo. It’s my own brain that’s changing how I’m thinking about things and creating the possibility of healing. So the next phase is that we discover that we can be the placebo. We can run that. We can take ownership of it.

We can do that. And then the next level beyond that is something deeper even. And this deeper level is harder to describe in words, but totally easy to experience.

And I think most everybody does in the trainings, even starting already at level one. It’s that we get to this place where we, it’s sort of like everything is already fine. I don’t have to heal myself.

There’s an okayness that’s already present within. And the thing is that when we rest in that and as that, that presence is paradoxically naturally healing in its nature. So the healing that we were seeking through effort tends to happen, it feels like on its own, the further we go with this.

So that’s just a quick take on it. There’s more to it, but does that begin answering the question? And what do you think?

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
For me, definitely. And we will put the link to this, to the German and the English version below the video or in the podcast show notes. So I think it’s really worth reading because to every level of stage of transformation, there’s a certain thinking about problems and solutions involved.

And I think if you on a metacognitive level, you understand how you create your problems or how you create your solutions yourself and what ways there are, it really changes like a metaconcept of learning and of living, even for, I would say, because it tells you a lot of how you think a solution or life will go on. And I just want to say one word from the external to the internal, because the other night here in Italy, I was talking to a doctor and she said, like a medical trained doctor, and she said like, well, the first thing she tries to do is to introduce the idea to her patients that the medicine that she gives them only opens up healing spaces for the body to go into regulation again, and not that the medication heals them.

Because she says, if you only believe in external healing, you will always be dependent on the healing itself. And this mind shift that it helps you, it helps you regulate. And the healing and the regulation finally has to take place in your system as well.

I find so fundamentally, that’s why I was so glad that you brought that up, the external versus the internal, because it’s so fundamentally in our understanding of medicine as well. So in psychology, the magic wand or the deep trance, can you put me into trance, really, really deep? And you go like, okay, why?

The deeper, the better. Okay.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah, I really like how that doctor is framing things for her client. What a gift to have her presence in the medical field and more like her, I hope, for the future. Yes, wonderful.

And yeah, when we long for this deep trance, sudden, you know, tap magic wand kind of thing, when people get it, most likely they get it through bypassing a lot, rather than actually transforming what and healing what needs to be acknowledged, seen, noticed, healed and transformed. It kind of jumps over it and just kind of into some bliss state. And that’s why it doesn’t really last.

So to have a dependable, lasting healing. So the Wholeness Work series is built on, well, I’m going to say this, it’s a mouthful, kind of getting to an embodied, we could call it an embodied awakening, but it’s the Wholeness Series of trainings is built on a journey, not just a single method that you apply once, but a series of methods that you get, you’re introduced to as the system develops and is ready for them, sort of in terms, this is a different kind of, this is a second kind of stages of development than what we were just talking about. That’s like, I’m not quite sure how to cognitively differentiate them, but the second kind is about, there’s this developmental journey that each of us tends to go on, if we choose to, if we want to, we can travel this journey of where we’re always growing, we’re always developing.

It starts being not so anymore so that we can fix ourselves, but just because we love the journey, you know, we fall in love with the journey and the journey helps us fall in love with ourselves and yeah.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
So you’ve just brought up awakening, the title of your book, or rather the subtitle is, I think, A Path to Awakening.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Just to be clear, I put healing and awakening.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Exactly, that’s what my point would be like, because I have joined the wholeness idea or the concept, the training, because I organized the training back then in 2015. And I didn’t really know what to expect. I just knew you as a person and I knew you from your books, from your other books, but I had no clue what to do with this method or with this.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
You took a leap of faith, didn’t you, Sebastian? And it was really, it was because of you that I know that I came to work to offer that training for DVNLP at the time. Yeah, so thank you for just like following your instinct, I guess, and going for it.

And I’ve had a good connection here in Germany ever since.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah. And it were only 120 colleagues that I brought this training to and it was like, okay, let’s see how it, I knew it would be very special. And after that we founded the association for you, for Europe, because I was so amazed.

And if you talk about like the effects or the outcomes, you talk about healing and awakening, and sometimes I feel you use it synonymously, which I find interesting, because for me in my early thinking, healing and awakening, and you were even talking about enlightenment, were two absolutely separate parts of thinking to me. It’s like healing is like, okay, you are damaged, you heal. And then like awakening, enlightening is something so blissful and holy and so on.

And I remember you making this connection and I was curious, like, I got it now, but how would you describe this connection between healing, holy, whole, which kind of is derived from the same word or same like basic rooted word?

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yes, yes. Well, first I want to say I started with the same separation between those two that you described having. When I went to grad school in clinical psychology, we weren’t taught about, spirituality was sort of a no-no to bring in.

And we were talking about emotional healing though, and that kind of emotional, like fixing our wounding, that kind of thing, healing, it was all that area. And the whole area of spirituality, I thought of that as a separate thing, this awakening bliss stuff seemed completely different to me. Then as I started, I suppose it’s after that experience with Milton Erickson, what happened there, I didn’t know it at the time, but looking back on it, I recognized that that shift, it was the kind of shift that spiritual teachers talk about, that kind of shift into, it’s this place where I just feel this kind of well-being that’s so fundamental, so innate, it’s a everything’s okay kind of well-being. It felt like that. Once I spoke to a spiritual teacher about it, I described it to her and I said, is this what you do?

And she goes, yeah, it’s the same thing. So it’s just, Erickson didn’t name it. And that is the thing, and he didn’t need to, but he recognized it, the shift.

When I made the shift, he turned and looked at me and he goes, and your unconscious mind has just made an important decision. And yeah, anyway, so he recognized that he knew what was happening and I was pretty sure he was the one that somehow orchestrated it. But it wasn’t really until I was doing wholeness work for a while that I understood that the two, the emotional healing and the awakening, were the same thing.

Because as I started doing wholeness work, and just to give a quick thing, wholeness work starts, the first phase of wholeness work are about finding the experience of limited self, not self-concept, that’s something else, that’s our idea of self. The experience of limited self is the one who thinks of the self-concept. So it’s this experience of self and then of separate limited self, finding that and then just inviting that to literally dissolve in mouth.

And people are always amazed at how simple it is, like how could it be that easy? People have said to me, I’ve sat in caves in the Himalayas for like two decades to get this. How could this be so easy?

Various versions of that people have told me. And it’s all about precision again, applying the precision. When you apply a precision, when you understand the experience in a precise sort of way, the understanding, the precision needs to be at the level of experience needed, though.

It has to be at the right level of experience before change can happen easily. So that’s what wholeness work provided. We go to the right level of experience, which these unconscious structures, we find them, we invite them to dissolve, things change.

But to finally circle back to your question, the way I see it now, the way I came to see it, is that to really get the deep emotional healing, the reason I wasn’t getting it for myself, even with the amazing NLP methods, is because I wasn’t going to a deep enough level of experience. And to get the real lasting deep emotional healing, we have to go, it’s required actually, we can’t get it unless we go to this deep level of experience that’s the same level of experience that happens, that the spiritual teachers are talking about when they describe awakening. And this might not make sense yet, it’s okay.

I hope it’s at least intriguing and that anybody interested follows up. This is conceptual. In the trainings, I just dive right into the experience, as several people have described.

We just get into experiencing it and then you kind of know it from the inside. So anyway, I started learning that to really get the emotional healing, you have to go to the same, you have to do the thing that the spiritual teachers are talking about, only they don’t have a specific access. They have more mostly concepts and some meditations, but the meditations aren’t precise enough to really reliably make it so that anyone can get there.

Then from the other side, to really have an awakening that lasts, that requires also doing emotional healing. And the thing is that wholeness work has both of them built into the structure of it, it’s baked in, you can’t not do both if you do wholeness work. You don’t have to call it awakening, you don’t have to call it spiritual, you don’t have to call it anything, but both do happen.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
So I have one question for Ruben, because I know that we’ve talked during his time in Karlsruhe, I think after the fourth day, and I was curious because I recommended visiting the training and I remember Ruben calling him and asking him, hey, how does it feel? And what I remember, Ruben, was some level of, let’s say, like mild confusement, because you didn’t get the answers where I said like, yeah, she doesn’t explain, she just says lead by experience. Yes.

And I can take Connirae over there and I keep on asking the questions. It took me over 10 years of questions to get the answers, the ideas for the answers where to look for. So I now have for myself quite a good concept what’s going on.

But, you know, as good things take time sometimes. So we talked about that. And Ruben, I think you said like, well, I’m so relaxed.

Sometimes, you know, I think you were talking about relaxation and stillness of the mind. So can you remember what your experiences were? Because I’m really curious how you experienced it from a beginner’s perspective at that time.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yes. As I started doing the work myself.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
First Ruben and then you.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Oh, Ruben. I’m sorry. Yes, yes.

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah, it’s fine. Yeah. So my experience was, and that’s exactly what I was looking for at the time, was inner peace.

And that was really, really great for me that you, it was a fundamental shift because that’s an emotional resource I haven’t been felt before that much. And that was really, really great for me. A deep relaxation, but also like a deep, deep inner peace.

And what else was there was a state, and now I’m coming with scientific concepts again, was the state of self-transcendence. So the ego dissolution, the ego fades. I have a deep feeling of like being unified with a larger group or sacred whole.

And that was really, really great. And I can actually really compare it to even a psychedelic state, even like a state of being totally connected, of having like a feeling of being unified. So like a self-transcendence, my problems are not that important anymore.

This is not important. And like a whole is even more important. So that was my feeling.

And that’s what I was thinking about always, Connirae, because I know core transformation, I know wholeness work, and I’m always thinking about when you develop those concepts, do you think self-transcendence with it as well? Like, is this like a part of it that is important to you? Is that a concept you like, you connect to?

Or, yeah, was it something else?

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
I usually don’t use words like that, Ruben, but it’s just a personal choice. And I think, because sometimes when people think of transcendence, they think of going someplace else. And with wholeness work, I think of it very much as coming home to myself.

And so, but it’s like a release of, but I think it’s just, I think we’re talking about the same experience, Ruben, where I’m just using different words, because I see, yeah, so it’s coming, I feel it as a coming home to myself and just a dissolving and melting of made-up concerns. And I think that’s where wholeness work helped me really practically. It was, I wasn’t, I was in a state, I haven’t talked about this yet here, but I really searched for wholeness work at a time when I thought maybe I was dying even, because I had this 24-7 electricity going up my, you know, it was like, whoa, it was so intense, I couldn’t sleep, I couldn’t think.

So what I liked about it was that it helped settle my nervous system and kind of rebalance. But then I started noticing that it was really great for my relationships, especially my relationship with my husband. You know, the things that would push my buttons, I would use that, do the process with that.

And I would notice that I was, you know, I’d be really annoyed with him on something, whatever it was, and thinking, you know, he’s being so critical or whatever. And then I would do the wholeness work, because I would realize I’m not in a resource state, so I’m going to do the wholeness work process myself first, and then I’ll go talk to him about it and tell him how he’s really so off based on all these things. And then, so I do the wholeness work, and then at the end of it, I’d kind of go, whoa, I don’t think I have anything to say. You know, there’s nothing I really need to say. It’s all okay. He’s being who he is, whatever, you know.

I was no longer taking things personally, and it was easier for me to let him be who he is and or was at the time, you know, and recognizing his own place on his own growth path without trying to force him to be different for me. So it was amazing to me how many things just seemed to, I realized, that’s just like a soap opera drama thing for me to get involved in that, you know. It doesn’t really matter. I started getting clear on what matters and what doesn’t. Now, I want to say, it’s not that everything dissolved. Sometimes I would get clearer, more clarity on what I really did want to say and go, you know, I want to bring this up with you.

I want to talk about this. This is important to me. And I would be able, I found that I was able to speak my truth, as people call it these days, speak my truth from a place that was not judgmental anymore.

You know, I would criticize, before, I would criticize him for being critical, you know. And, you know, after doing wholeness work, I was recognizing, you know, the criticism from my side, that’s what’s in my, that’s my side of the road. That’s in my lane.

That’s what’s my business to process and transform. And so I’ll do my best on it, you know. And then wholeness work really, really helped me with that, letting, so that I could speak, you know, say what’s important to me, make requests, but in a way that he could hear it now, much more of the time, because I wasn’t coming off judgmental.

So that’s how it helped me practically. It helped me sleep better, also, and gosh, so many other things, it’s kind of hard to list. But I just want to say, there are a lot of practical benefits that I experienced.

So I guess I was aware that it was the same territory as that the spiritual teachers were talking about. And at the same time, I think I was somehow, I wasn’t really grasping hard at the bliss states. I was really going for the where the rubber hits the practical value in my daily life, where I get triggered, I want to use it there and help me.

Because each, it’s not about using wholeness work to just numb out my response and, okay, now I’m just going to be peaceful. Not at all. It’s more like, and I see you’re relating to that, too.

It’s more that something changes. So I let go of an attachment to something. I can be more present, more authentic, hold the space for other people more readily, and so on.

Yeah. So that’s what comes to mind right off when you ask. Yeah.

And I really appreciate hearing from you, Ruben, and also you, Sebastian, about how this was for you right at the beginning. Yeah. It’s interesting to look back on that.

Yeah.

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah. And I can tell you, even though in 2015, when Sebastian only organized it, he doesn’t shut up about the wholeness work. Whenever we talk, and we sometimes talk in private, because we are friends as well, and then I tell him about my problems.

And then he asked me, have you tried wholeness work? And I was like, no, I wasn’t thinking about that. And then, yeah, try it. And it works. And it works. While walking, while taking a walk, while sitting at the computer, but not looking at the computer, but sitting at the desk and whatsoever, you can do it anywhere. Nobody realizes you’re doing it. So you’re perfectly doing it on your own. And yeah, it works. It really works. I mean, Sebastian does like 40 to 100 wholeness processes during a 20 or 30 minute walk or something like that. So that’s always pretty amazing to me.

And I can see that it works. And I really like that you said and that you say it’s not about self-transcendence in a way that you’re going away, like you’re losing yourself or anything like that, but it’s more like coming home. And I thank you so much for that metaphor. And I just wanted to quickly tell that anecdote. It really reminds me of something I experienced when I was in Adafo, Ghana. I was at a beach and there were turtle eggs.

And they came out of those eggs and then they wanted to go into the ocean and then a wave came and then they swam off. And what sea turtles do is they have something called magnetic imprinting. So they realize what is the electromagnetic field around this island where I was born. And then they migrate thousands of miles into the ocean. And when they die or when they’re females and they want to lay eggs as well, they come back because they know the magnetic or the electromagnetic field around the island. And they really, really come back home.

So I think we also have something like that, where we go out and we migrate anywhere else, but we still have that natural sense of, how do I get home? And I feel like wholeness is a way to get there. And I really like that metaphor that you gave.

So I thank you so much for that, for the self-transcendence.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
I love that metaphor of the turtles. Yeah, that’s so apt here. Yeah, I agree.

I think we have that almost magnetic, some kind of almost very physical. I think there’s a physics to this that will someday be discovered of this exactly like has been already revealed with respect to the turtles and the eggs. Yeah, there’s a kind of resonance of coming back home.

And the interesting thing is, the more we come back home in this way, we discover that our true self, our true nature, is something vaster, more full, more complete, more whole than we might have ever imagined. So these limited selves that go off on a journey somewhere, once they come back home, the experience is more than, it’s not just that I’m now a small self in the body, it’s more that, ah, something’s been released and I’m experiencing myself as a vast presence. And that is why, or that’s part of why when people do wholeness work, they also talk about some of the results they talk about are, wow, I’m just so much more creative now or solutions just come to me more easily.

And before I would get stuck in these problems, now I go do this meditation and then I go to sleep and in the middle of the night, a solution sometimes, it just comes to me. And I think that happens because we are home in the sense that we’re now inhabiting our vast nature that’s not a limited self any longer.

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Beautifully put. Thank you so much.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
And so that reminds me of my idea of enlightenment, which I had in my early years, because I don’t know how that appeared in my mind, but whenever I was like in my 16, 17 years old, I said like, well, I’d like to be enlightened. So I don’t know where it came from, but it was there and I spoke it out and all the others who just said like, well, I want to become a banker or I want to become a doctor, like me confusing others as always. So I’ve only said it once and then saw the reactions like, okay, did I just say that?

I had no concept for it, but my concept for enlightenment was that enlightenment is a good thing. And years later, I re-conceptualized it as some kind of self-realization and leading to the question, who am I and why am I here? What am I doing?

But basically this, what is my true self and what is it? And I find, and I’m just quoting for Ruben, like me doing 30, 40 processes, going for a walk. And the marvelous thing I think wholeness provides or wholeness work provides is that it gets easier.

It gets automated. The system really recognizes only through the intention of doing it up a certain level, okay, let’s integrate that again, because rather the state of integration is what is like the basic state. It’s not the state of separation.

So for me, like whenever I remember, okay, so like I did a training here, I was sitting right below the air conditioning and I had this slight sense of headache and I just not as you usually do with pain, you know, pushed it away or took like a tablet, but I was like, okay, let’s just, you know, sense in and through it. And I was like, and I relaxed and the pain was away in almost seconds, like rather a minute. Then I checked back and was like, okay, good.

And I was yawning. So one of the groups saw that, said like, are you tired? Did you party last night?

Said like, no, no, I just relaxed. And that’s a big difference, being tired and being relaxed. And this yawning, this just relaxation, which comes with wholeness work for me is so precious that I don’t want to interchange it for everything.

So just to comment on the 23rd.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Beautiful. Yeah. So would it be a good time now to move on to a quick guiding?

And I’m not sure how much time we actually have, but I think maybe I should make this fairly fast. Am I right? How many minutes would you like me to do the 10-minute version or the 15-minute or the 20-minute version?

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Let’s do the 10-minute version. I think it’s perfect.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Okay, we go with the 10-minute version.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Okay.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
And anyone who wants to experience the longer version, Sebastian will give you ways to find that in the notes below, right? Yeah. Okay.

So here we go. And I want to frame this by saying this is just a very short warm-up exercise. It’s not by any means the full wholeness work, but I’ll get as much in as I can.

And then afterwards we’ll talk a little bit about what are the next steps. But the wholeness work has all to do about going to this deeper level of experience where we find what I call the structures of the unconscious, the universal structures of the unconscious that hold stress or suffering in place. And the first structure that’s important to find, as the spiritual teachers all discovered, is the experience of self or the experience of the I. So here’s a really quick way to find it. It’s really easy to find when you do it like this. So just start by noticing a body sensation.

Anything positive, negative, neutral doesn’t matter. So I notice right now a little bit of flabby feeling as it comes to me in my stomach. And that’s not quite sensation quality, but just in the area around my stomach. Just right by my belly button. And it’s sort of oval-shaped. And it’s like it’s a long cylinder, oval-shaped thing. And then I just notice the sensation in and through the area. Maybe it’s warm, maybe it’s cool, maybe it’s prickly, maybe it’s vibrating. It really can be anything, or maybe you can’t find any words for it. But make it as if you’re sensing in and through to notice the sensation itself. And if you don’t notice any other body sensation, it’s okay to just pick. Okay, I can feel the pressure where my legs are touching the chair I’m sitting on, where they’re resting, or where my arms are resting on the armchair.

So noticing the sensation in the body, now we can say or think to ourselves, I am aware of this sensation. I am aware of this sensation in my belly or wherever it is that you’re noticing something. And then we get to the unusual and maybe interesting question.

And that is this. So we think to ourselves, I am aware of this sensation. And then we register, yeah, that’s true. I am aware of this sensation right now. I am aware. So where’s the eye that notices?

Where is the eye that’s aware of this sensation? And now just notice whatever location comes to mind. It could be anywhere. So for me right now, immediately what pops up is like almost like in my left eye, but a little larger size than my left eye. It’s like it’s a that includes that. And if each of you want to share what you noticed.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
So I went with something in my throat.

[Sprecher 4]
Okay.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
And it was some kind of a piece of coal-shaped part. Not really a clear form, but I sensed in and through. And it was like really rough and warm at the same time.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Okay. And then where is the eye that notices?

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
The eye was like on my back, like two slabs of towel, like a towel on my back, which was a little bit cold, sensing in and through. And it’s lying there.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Great, great, great. And Ruben, do you feel like sharing yours too?

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah. Yeah. I started with a brick in my chest.

So it was really hard. It was really cold. It was really, it was really brick shaped as well.

And I sensed in and through. And I sensed that it was really, really rough and hard as well. And the eye who is aware of that is right above my right eyebrow, but more like here in the forehead.

And it was like a sting in there. So it was quite uncomfortable, but yeah, it’s right there.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Okay. And for our purposes, perfect. And this is something important to recognize with this process, whether the experience is positive, negative, pleasant, unpleasant, it actually doesn’t matter. And you’ll see how that works in a little bit. But it’s just being honest and truthful about, oh, this is what I’m noticing in this moment. That’s all we need. That’s really the important, that’s the key. So those of you following along, there are tips for this. If you didn’t find an eye, we don’t have time for that today, but there are ways to help you find it. You can guess. I’ll tell you that. You can just make it up, pretend you know.

It might be in the body. It might be outside the body or some of each. If it’s outside the body, it could be close. It could be far. There’s no wrong location. There’s no better or worse location.

It is whatever it is. So, okay. So mine is here. And then as both Ruben and Sebastian already did, now we notice the location, we notice the size and shape, and we sense in and through to notice the sensation quality in and through the space. They’ve already shared that. When I do this for myself, I notice it’s a little shadowy. There’s a little bit of darkness in my, it’s sort of like empty space that’s a little bit of dark. That’s what I’m getting right now. So whatever each of you finds who are following along. Now the next piece is we go back to that sentence, I am aware of this sensation. We’ve already explored the sensation. We know where it’s located. We know its size and shape. We know its sensation quality. So we’ve explored that in our experience. The eye, we’ve explored the location, size and shape, sensation quality. So we have the experience of the eye, too. The middle word we haven’t explored yet, awareness.

I am aware of this sensation. So if we explore awareness a bit, what is awareness? And I like to guide people through experiencing awareness in the way that works well for this process and is easy to experience. And it’s this. If we think about it, awareness is our capacity to experience, and awareness is already present throughout our body. That’s how we were able to notice a body sensation a moment ago, because awareness is already present through the body.

And so we can just sense that presence of awareness through the body right now. And awareness is already present also in the space all around in every direction. And we know this because if a sound were to occur, if somebody called my name from one side or the other side, there will be a natural receiving of the sound.

It’s not that I have to make any effort to go out and get the sound. Oh, maybe somebody’s calling me, I better go get the sound. It’s that I’m just present here. The awareness is all around in every direction. So if a sound happens from any direction, there will be a natural receiving of the sound. And it can be nice to just notice that in this moment. And as we recognize the awareness that’s through the body and through the space all around, we can also notice that there’s actually no edge or border to it. In our subjective experience, we can know conceptually that if the sound happens on the other side of the world, I probably am not going to hear that. But there’s no line we can find in our subjective experience where if the sound happens on this side, I know I’ll hear it.

And if it happens on the other side, I won’t. So in our subjective experience, awareness is this field, this capacity, this presence that’s throughout the body and the sense of space all around in every direction without any edge or border. So we can pause to experience that together in this moment. And it can be nice to experience that. And then we do our experiment. And that is we go back to the eye we found a moment ago. We notice the sensation of the eye. So the sensing in and through, we could call it the energy quality there. And then sensing the energy in and through the eye, we ask, what happens? Notice what happens when the sensation of the eye is welcomed, it’s invited to just open and relax, dissolve, melt in and out the fullness of awareness that’s all around and throughout. And then we just allow whatever happens to happen. If nothing happens, that’s fine. If a little something happens, it’s fine. Occasionally, something bigger happens. Whatever happens is always the right thing for our system at the moment.

So I’ll pause for a moment so those listening can take the time to let that happen. And you can stay with that until things settle. And then what I usually do if there’s a group of people present is we all start sharing what happened for us. And especially, now there’s three of us here so we can share. And I can explain a little bit what tends to happen, what usually happens for people and why this is significant. So yeah, so usually for people, well first maybe let me just open a space for each of you to share if you’d like what happened for you. And it’s fine whatever happens. It’s like nothing needs to happen as you know.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah, I will just start. So whatever was on my back and usually the eyes integrate quite fastly. And in your presence, my system takes more time.

And you always say like take your time. And I usually rather speed it up or have it sped up or like enjoy the quickness. And I really enjoyed the time where it dissolved and melted and kind of evaporated and left this warm tingly feeling behind which then integrated in my system and I had to yawn and there was a relaxation.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah, okay, lovely. And that is, I’ll just add a little bit to that, that is one, like there are at least three sort of categories of the main responses people to have to that and this exercise and that is one of them. And it’s sort of like what happens there when that happens, when there’s melting and dissolving, what is happening, my understanding of that is it’s our limited self-experience.

The eye that we find is always a limited self-experience. It’s never like, we know this because it’s small. So I often tell people, you know, if I go to a party and somebody says, who are you, Connirae? And I says, oh, I know, I know. I went to a seminar. I found I’m over my left eye that’s a little dark. And they’re kind of going, what? What drug is she on? It would make no sense.

And the thing is, it actually doesn’t make any sense, but it’s as if that’s what our unconscious thinks we are and it’s acting out of. So this small ball here in the moment, okay, that’s my sense of eye that in some sense, my unconscious is acting out of. And this small space is always smaller than the full space of awareness. So when we invite, so that means it’s always smaller than the truth of our nature, because if we think about it, the truth of our nature is always going to include at least this full field of awareness. That’s clearly part of who we are. It can’t not be.

So yeah, in the book, The Wholeness Work Essential Guide Level One, Healing and Awakening, you mentioned that earlier. In the book, I explain this in a little more detail. So that’s an easy way to learn a little more about it, about this first piece here and what do I mean by the true nature?

That doesn’t make any sense. And what do you mean, this is who I really am? That doesn’t make any sense. And so those of you who might be feeling skeptical at this moment, I just want to validate that, you know, stay with that. Demand answers to your questions. And a lot of those answers are in the book and of course they’re in the training.

But I’m just going to go quickly for right now, because to tell you my sense of it, it’s like, okay, that’s when the sense of self dissolves and melts. The common theme is it feels relaxing. But what’s happening is a limited self, a contraction in our consciousness, literally like a fist is a contraction of muscles, the eye is a contraction of our consciousness. It takes effort to maintain that small sense of self and it’s a limited sense of self. So when we find it and we invite it to dissolve and melt, that particular limited sense of self, it’s like that tension of our psyche is invited to relax. And that results in a relaxation that’s deeper than muscle relaxation.

It’s a relaxation of something else. So, yeah. Did you want to say any more about that or should we go to Ruben now and just hear what his experience was?

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Let’s go to Ruben.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
All right. Great. Yeah. Are you okay sharing? How did that work out for you this time?

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Really well. It felt like a headache before, right here, and then it just dissolved. The picture I had in mind was an egg cracking on my head, but in the most pleasant way. And then like a liquid going down and then a really deep relaxation after that. It was a really, really pleasant feeling after that. And it was like a crown of relaxing liquid on my head. That was really great. So thank you for that. So I could really feel this contraction, but then also relaxation of the eye.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
And I think the more we do this work, the easier those kinds of experiences become. It was that way for me. The first time I did this with myself, I felt a little bit of relaxation, but it was so little that I wasn’t really sure it was there and I wasn’t sure that I was on the right track.

And then as I experimented with it more, I started getting that, whoa, this is building on itself. It’s getting more significant. Not necessarily in a straight line, more like a wavy, but in general, it feels more and more potent the more I do it.

So for me this time, it was interesting, this dark orb here, it kind of naturally relaxed. As it opened, it felt like simultaneously something dripping down, maybe a little similar to what you described, Ruben, and simultaneously a clarity. It’s like the darkness just became clear space and there was an opening that happened for me too.

It’s like literally becoming clearer. And that reminds me, many people when they do this wholeness work, often they say, it’s as if a filter through which I was seeing the world has dissolved away and I’m seeing things more clearly now. And that itself increases our emotional intelligence. If I’m seeing the world through this sort of dark orb thing, that’s going to color how I see things and distort a little bit. And the more I find those and relax them, the more clarity I’m going to have and be able to bring to every relationship, every situation. And just to add, some of you may be wondering, gosh, she’s been doing this a long time and she still found a black orb inside there? What gives? Does this not really work or what? And here’s how I would say, I want to speak to that.

I think first, each of us is layered in our experience. We have more than one eye, more than one unconscious experience of limited self. And the more we do the work, we have fewer and fewer of the limited self structures and they become in their own way more… I was speaking with Ralph Kübler about this. He’s describing it. They become more mature and I think that is a good way to describe it.

It’s like they’re already in better shape oftentimes. And oftentimes now when I do the work in the middle of the night, I’m opening to a space of awareness and it’s like I can’t even find an eye because there’s no active… That happens now.

It didn’t used to happen at all. It took a few years for it to get to that stage. So if you do the wholeness work as a practice, it has the possibility of being a journey for you that can keep carrying you.

And yet, each time I guide people through the exercise, I just go with whatever comes to me. I have no idea what’s going to happen and I just go with it. And sometimes I even have the feeling maybe I’m now experiencing for, I think, a reflection that is true for me and also maybe a reflection that for whatever reason I need to be noticing right now of what’s happening in my sphere somehow.

So yeah. Anything else y’all want to say? We’re getting, I think, maybe we’re over time a bit.

But the main thing I want to add at this point is that the wholeness work is more than a method. It’s a journey. And it’s a journey that becomes increasingly positive, pleasant, really wonderful.

But also, you know, a lot of the therapy greats like Jung, you know, they talk about depth psychology and so on. And what wholeness work does, like on the awakening side, it helps us get to an embodied awakening, an awakening that doesn’t bypass anything. On the deep psychology side, it helps us find those structures of the unconscious that may have been hidden away.

But the more we do it, it creates a space of kindness in which it happens. Our unconscious is ready to reveal these things to us. We don’t have to go digging because the unconscious is ready to reveal them to us.

And because there’s this kind space that has been cultivated. And that’s what we need to do the real healing. Real healing happens in kindness.

It happens in love. It doesn’t happen in self-criticism or roughness. It happens in kindness and love.

So, and that is what we discover each of our own true nature anyway. So, it’s not like we have to practice kindness. It starts blossoming when we do this kind of work.

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
Kindness is our home, I would think, as well.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Ruben Langwara – Resilienz-Podcast]
To dial back to that. Yeah, great.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
So, just to maybe finish our interview session off at this point. So, I had to rethink not resilience only with Ruben here a lot of times, but I had to rethink my concepts of being human with this work I’ve been doing for 10, over 10 years now. And quite extensively through the really painful times in the last years.

And I think the biggest challenge we as humans have is dealing with separation. And the separation we need in order to talk about the world. So, if I talk about a pen, I have to separate by giving it a name.

We have to separate it from ourselves. We can’t just blissfully walk around all day and just everything is one. And when you cross the street, you experience that you are at one point not one with the car coming, and then you are one with the car. And this is like maybe the last thing you realize. So, this sense of separation, which is oftentimes dysfunctional, being separated from resources, being separated from, as you so beautifully put it, the kindness part. We don’t have to learn it or practice it.

We just have to let it be part of every moment of our life again. So, I think this is the greatest benefit I had from the wholeness work so far, is being able to connect to life, to the world in a way which is effortlessly, which lets me separate willingly certain things, but not in a dysfunctional way. And like the things I don’t like and where the real pain comes through, like putting concepts over it and rejecting it and taking that away, dissolving that and seeing things like they are in an educated way and in a mindful way, but still being connected to it and just being with life and being life itself. That is the biggest thing I take from this work. And I experience it day to day again and again in different shades, in different aspects. And that’s just my take on that method.

And I’m really thankful for you and for you sharing that with the world and bringing that to the world.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
I’m glad you brought it back to separation. Let’s see, I’m getting, maybe there’s something. Okay, I’m back.

Something happened with the internet there. I’m glad you brought it back to this separation versus oneness. That is why it’s called wholeness work, too, as you are aware, because this is something that the spiritual teachers understood that I think that was not clear in psychological thought, but to get to the deepest level of healing requires finding these inner separations and healing them.

So the separate sense of self, the I that is small and limited, this is a separation inwardly. And when that’s invited back into the whole of everything, something magical happens, something special happens. It might be subtle, but it’s quite significant.

And then when we get to the next structures, the next structure, by the way, just to give everyone a preview, after working with the sense of self, the I, then we go with the internalized authority structures. And these are necessary to also heal. This is less mapped out on the spiritual side.

There’s been an attempt to map it out on the psychology side, but not at a deep enough level to make change reliable and gentle, kind, and easy. So when we find the authority structures in an easy way, then we can resolve things like perfectionism, self-criticism, shame, guilt, feelings of unworthiness. All of these things were very relevant to me.

And it became clear this was the next thing that needed to be healed after the separate self. And then after that, there’s what I call the nurturing structures or the emptiness nurturing structures, the places of emptiness within that yearn for, that are missing something. And attachment people talk about that. But again, what wholeness work provides is a way to actually heal that relatively quickly. It’s not that it’s a miracle quick here. It definitely is not. But the healing happens each time we do the practice. There’s a little bit of healing that happens. So, okay. Thank you so much.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah, thank you so much. And for me, again, a little bit of healing happened for me today. And as always with this method, it’s a journey.

And Connirae, thanks so much. You will have the full program in Cologne and we will put a link below it and we will just make it public again. So that is one of the rare occasions you are in Germany and giving that in person. And yeah, thank you very, very much.

[Connirae Andreas – Resilienz-Podcast]
I’m so happy to be here in Germany and be able to offer this in person. And if you’re not quite ready to take that leap, the book would be an easy next step also to kind of preview. Does this fit for me? Am I ready for this now? And I hope to see some of you there. I think you won’t regret it if you decide to go for it, like Sebastian did those many years ago.

[Sebastian Mauritz – Resilienz-Podcast]
Yeah, yeah. And I was very uncertain what would come up and it was really life-changing. So thank you very much for that, Connirae. And as always, the ending in German. Was auch so transformierend, dass wir die auch nicht mehr missen wollen. Insofern von Herzen alles Gute und möge die Resilienz mit Ihnen sein.

Hier geht´s zum Resilienz-Podcast: www.rethinking-resilience.com